Episode 31 | Beer Science

See below, if you know what's good for ya.

A full transcript of this episode is available below thanks to donations from our Patrons!

00:00:00 – Intros seem unusually succinct, what’s going on? Don’t you dare short-change us, Paleopals! Furthermore, how did I, an anonymous fan, wind up doing the show notes? The only way out now is to forge ahead…

00:03:56 – Oh, I get it. You have an interview with Charles Bamforth, the Anheuser-Busch Endowed Professor of Brewing Science at UC Davis. This guy sounds awesome, and it’s literally beer science, just like the theme of the show! You guys are the greatest.

• And he has books too. You better buy them and read them. At least buy them.

00:37:18 – And now Trailer Trash Talk, this one is about In My Sleep. Some kind of sleep-thriller? Yeah, cause nothing is more thrilling than sleep. FAIL! Moving on… More Stars Wars talk? I’m on board, let’s just keep in sciencey.

00:58:36 – Sometimes a story just seems tailor-made for you guys, doesn’t it? A captured Oriental Yeti is such a softball but as usual y’all do a better job handling this story than 99.99% of actual news media. Well maybe that isn’t usual, but when it comes to Yetis the Paleopals can’t be beat.

01:08:48 – And now it’s the PaleoPOW segment. What does POW stand for anyway? You’ve always been inconsistent with this acronym; I hope you didn’t steal if from some other site. That would be low. Regarldess, I hope I get mentioned! If only I had a real identity and not just this collection of words without so much as name to attribute to it. Mine is the toughest of lots. So now Ryan’s writing for some comic-book site? I’m here having an existential crisis and he’s riffing on funny-books. Jerk. Show’s over, now I return to nothingness. Enjoy life, everyone else. *sigh*

Music for this week’s show provided by:

Broken Record – Sweatshop Union

Charles in Charge – Relient K

As You Sleep – Something Corporate

Snow In His Hair – Johnny Cash

Artwork this week provided by friend of the show Austin Hartman. Go see his other comics, they're good, trust me: http://austinscomics.wordpress.com/

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Episode 31: Beer Science

Patrick: Ryan, you know what I did? Right?

Ryan: What do you do Patrick?

Patrick: Forgot to record again, but I'm recording now.

Ryan: Typical.

Patrick: So hopefully that call sounded okay.

Ryan: It's fine.

Charlie: It sounded pretty good.

Announcer: Hello, and welcome to science sort of.

Music

Ryan: Hello and welcome to Science sort of, Episode 31. The show that brings the science ,the things that are sort of science and things that wish they were science. This week's theme is beer science, the science of beer. It's been, I can't believe it took us 31 episodes to get here and the people who are with me that probably also can't believe it are the Paleo Pals, Charlie.

Charlie: Now, is it beer science or bear science?

Ryan: It, well we'll talk about bears later, but right now it's beer.

Charlie: Alright, cool. Yeah, I'm here.

Ryan: And Patrick.

Patrick: Here's, well, waiting for for beer.

Ryan: Well, we don't want you to wait any longer than you absolutely have to. So this week we're going to start as we usually do with what are we drinking. So Patrick, since you seem so eager, why don't you go ahead and start us off with what you're drinking tonight.

Patrick: I'm not sure how you pronounce this thing. It's Xingu.

Ryan: I've been calling it Zingo.

Patrick: Xingu. Xingu from Brazil. It's a black beer and it tastes very similar to a Negro Modelo, and has an alligator on the label, so. As well as like a native South American Indian, South American native hunting. So pretty awesome label If nothing else.

Ryan: I had that beer a while ago, and I actually I thought it was a little bland. Maybe I, just was, the wrong place wrong time.

Patrick: It wasn't what I was expecting. But if you know what you're getting into, which is basically a dark Mexican style beer, which I guess makes sense given the somewhat proximity.

Ryan: Kind of, sort of.

Patrick: Kind of, sort of, exactly. Well, culturally, maybe closer than geographically. I’m not sure.

Charlie: Yeah, Portugal and Spain are close together and they’re, they are the predecessors to those two great nations.

Patrick: Yes.

Ryan: Not sure how well that logic works. But the man with the logic is Charlie and what are you drinking, Charlie?

Charlie: It works. We speak English.

Ryan: Sort of.

Charlie: So I'm, I'm drinking a Red Hook, ESB. I'm getting back to my Northwestern roots. And it is a tasty beer. It says “goodness, since 1982”. I have them beat by one year, I have goodness since 1981.

Ryan: You were born in 81? Is what you're saying?

Charlie: Yes.

Ryan: Well, you know what, that's actually an amazing transition to my beer because I'm having a Nectar IPA, which purports to be an all natural Ale, which I don't really care if it's natural or not. It's beer. And it's made by Nectar Ales which was established in 1987. So I also have them beat by a year.

Charlie: Cool.

Ryan: As a, you know, I started being all natural a year before they did. And it's a it's a very solid IPA. It's, it's the IPA grab a sixer of when it looks like it's going to be a hot week and I'm going to want to come home to something refreshing.

Patrick: And hoppy.

Ryan: Yeah, because I'm hopping around when the weather's nice

Patrick: Got it. All right.

Ryan: Tonight we have a pretty special guest. And we're gonna bring him in now to talk more about these tasty beers that we've been drinking.

Patrick: Call him up. Let's do all right.

Ryan: Alright.

Music

Ryan: Hello.

Charles: Hello.

Ryan: Dr. Bamforth.

Charlie B: Speaking. Charlie works.

Ryan: This is, okay, Charlie, this is Ryan from the Science sort of podcast.

Charlie B: Okay, how are you?

Ryan: I'm fine.

Charlie B: How are you?

Ryan: Good. And I'll go and introduce you to the other guys right now we have Charlie, another Charlie. Charlie B: Another Charlie. Good.

Charlie: Howdy.

Charlie B: How are you?

Ryan: And Patrick.

Patrick: Hello.

Charlie B: Hello Patrick.

Charlie: Alright, so this podcast we have a very special guest and we're happy to welcome Professor Charlie Bamforth, who is the Anheuser Busch endowed Professor of brewing sciences and the department chair for Food Science and Technology at the University of California Davis. Charlie specializes in the science of malting and brewing. His current research program focuses primarily on the wholesomeness of beer, including studies on the psycho physics of beer perception, on polyphenols, and on the residues from non-starchy poly saccharine digestion that constitutes soluble fiber and potential prebiotics in beer. So he's concerned with the different chemicals in beer and how they affect our physical well being.

5:04

Patrick: You make beer sounds so hard.

Ryan: I know.

Charlie: Yes.

Ryan: Yeah, but that sounds like it's good a place to start as any and I think one of the, it may seem like a simple question but one of the things that might be worth discussing is how exactly do you define a beer Charlie?

Charlie B: Well it's very diverse set of materials, of drinks that could be called beer. But basically beer is a fermented cereal. So you know if you if you take grapes and you try them and you ferment them, you’ve got wine. But beer is much more sophisticated and the differences instead of grapes what we've got is cereal grains. Ah, most of the beers in the world, the main to grain is malted barley, but of course there’s some excellent beers made out of malted wheat and so on but basically it's, it's fermented cereals.

Patrick: I was going to ask...

Charlie B: Broad, broad brush you know, there’s a lot of products, therefore that come into that and that's why you've got so many different beers you know. It's not like wine we just got red, white and pink, but I mean we see a whole bunch of different stuff.

Patrick: Yeah, it sounds like you you've got in for your your cronies there.

Charlie B: Only in a very, only in a very cheerful and friendly way. But you know those guys have stolen the moral high ground and it's totally undeserved.

Patrick: Yeah right.

Charlie B: ... the most sophisticated beverage.

Ryan: Listen, they can they can have their moral high ground if they're willing to pay for it. I'm very glad that I can get some of the best beers in the world, that you know, for what a decent bottle of wine costs.

Charlie B: Yeah, yeah. You know, and and the differences in the world of beer, most people strive for consistency so that you choose a brand of beer and you say, well, I know exactly what it's going to taste like. And so it does. But with wine, you're never quite sure. And sometimes you get some nasty surprises a very great expense.

Charlie: Right.

Ryan: Like an Oregon peanut, according to Neil de Grasse Tyson.

Charlie B: I do actually, drink occasionally a glass of wine, but I do know that beer is, is harder to make more complex, and there's a lot more science in a glass of beer and than there is in a glass of wine.

Ryan: It arguably has a has a longer history.

Charlie B: Well, you know, I wasn't there 8,000 years ago, but you know, I do tell the story that it is, of course, the basis of civilization and, and the reason people established static communities rather than following goats around the countryside was, was so that they could grow barley and sprout the barley and make a bread out of it and convert that bread into a wonderful alcoholic beverage, which we now know is beer.

Charlie: It seems to spread across civilizations due to the love of the beverage itself, not because of religion.

Charlie B: Yeah, yeah. Well, some people will view it as religion, but you know, there's not a lot of religious imagery associated with beer. But having said that, there's some fine beers that are, still, to this day made by monks.

Ryan: Absolutely.

Charlie B: So we, you know, we, you know, people say to me, well, beer is not in the Bible. Well, that's not true. It is in the Bible, it’s just the translation of it and the modern translations of the Bible, instead of the term strong drink, they've now replaced that with beer. And so it's everywhere, you know. It's a it's a fundamental part of society and there’s a very proud history.

Patrick: But I thought we, we’re, typically we all drink a beverage as we're recording the show, and a lot of times it's a beer. And so I thought we just run the beers we're drinking today by you and get your take on them. How's that sound?

Charlie B: That’s fine, if I’ve heard of it.

Patrick: Yeah, I'm drinking one I had never heard of before. And this is I guess it's Xingu. It's a black beer from Brazil.

Charlie B: Yeah.

Patrick: It reminds me a lot of a Negro Modelo.

Charlie B: Oh, right. Okay.

Ryan: I've had that before. Yeah.

Charlie B: What’s it taste like?

Patrick: Like a Negro Modelo.

Charlie B: That tastes fine, good. You know, there are some fine dark beers in the world and the one that most people tell tales about is of course, Guinness.

Ryan: Mmmhmmm.

Charlie B: You know, there are more myths about Guinness than any other beer I know. I often tell the story of, a woman emailed me and little while ago and she said is it true that the difference between Guinness brewed in Dublin and Guinness brewed elsewhere in the world is they marinate dead cow in the beer? So I emailed back and I said, you know, I've been in the brewing industry for 32 years and I've never heard anything quite so stupid. As everybody knows, it’s a sheep. That is totally apocryphal and not true at all. But you know, you know, that is a beer and a beer style that attracts a lot of, a lot of interest. And, you know, in terms of the health thing, you know, a lot of people will feel that, you know, the darker the beer, the healthier it is, and that's not entirely true.

10:00

Ryan: When I was, when I was in Ireland, a guy, I overheard a guy saying that, you know, all you really need to be healthy is just a, you know, a couple of pints of Guinness a day a little bit of orange juice just for some fruit.

Charlie B: I once gave a talk in Washington DC, a very famous medic who is well known for his work at promoting the moderate consumption of alcohol. I gave a talk and talked about the fact that there wasn't this material in there and these B vitamins and so on, but the thiamin was deficient. And he came running up to me, he said, you know, if only we could goose the level of thiamin in beer, would you say that it was a fairly well balanced food stuff. I said, you know, even I wouldn't say that. You need a few pretzels as well.

Laughter

Ryan: For your salt.

Charlie B: Yeah.

Charlie B: So what else are you drinking?

Charlie: I'm stuck up on campus. I'm still at the lab. And maybe I shouldn't be saying this on air. But I wasn't able to pick out a fancy beer. I typically like IPAs, but I in my fridge, I had, just a standard Red Hook ESB which I like quite a bit actually. It’s just an ale.

Charlie B: Very good. Very good. Yes, very well known beer and very excellent. In this recent study we did on silicon in in India, you know, I never name brands but the beers with the highest level of silicon in them, which some people claim is very good for your bones, some of the pale malt, and you know not lager malt, but pale malt with very high hop rates, they tended to give fairly high levels of silicon. So India Pale Ales for example would be a very rich source of silicon. Again, so I got all sorts of email, somebody emailed me and he said so, would you say that binge drinkers have got really strong bones? Yeah, sure, until they fall over.

Charlie: Yeah, till their liver gets too heavy.

Charlie B: Yeah.

Ryan: And, you know, really bad alcoholics tend to stop eating food. Which is not necessarily good for your bone health or health in general.

Charlie B: Yeah. In all seriousness, you know, I do preach the message of moderation. And, and that's very important. I mean, you say you're in the lab, you know, I used to be, back in the 80s, I was research manager for Bass in the UK. And those were enlightened days because we actually had a case of beer in the lab. One of my guys he had his first beer at 10am every morning. A beer called Worthington’s White Shield and it's one of these naturally conditioned beers with lots of yeast in the bottom. So he used to very carefully decant the beer into a glass and admire the glass and then drink the yeast out of the bottle.

Laughter

Charlie: Wow.

Charlie B: That was his that was his B vitamins each day. And those were enlightened days. I mean, you can't even have a glass of water in a laboratory these days, but we actually had beer in our lab in those days. Long gone, long gone.

Ryan: Well, I think most geologists still probably have a couple of beers lying around the lab. Geologists are...

Charlie B: My brother-in-law, my brother-in-law is a geologist down in South America. What's the third guy got?What’s in that glass?

Ryan: I'm drinking a Nectar IPA from Nectar Ales, up in, I think it’s Mendocino, right? It's one of my...

Charlie B: Very good.

Ryan: It's a very good like standard, stalwart IPA in my opinion.

Charlie B: Yeah. Yeah. Very nice too. People often say, well, what's my favorite beer? And I say, well, you know, it's, it's, it's where I am and what I'm doing at the time that really really matters, you know. I usually say I won't answer the question, but I'll tell you what my least favorite beer is. I could possibly tell you that. That stems back to my days as a student in the UK when I, you know, if you have a bad bit of fish, you’ll never eat that fish again.

Charlie: Yeah.

Charlie B: Well, I have a lot of this particular beer and I couldn't possibly face it again, but it's from the northeast of England, but that's the only clue I'm gonna give you.

Laughter

Ryan: I can take some guesses but we'll leave that alone.

Charlie B: It is popular in the United States.

Patrick: Yeah, okay.

Ryan: Yeah, I got I got a buddy who's a Jordi. We could probably ask him.

Charlie B: Yeah, you probably could, but he probably wouldn't agree with me.

Ryan: There's a ah, there's a bar here in Santa Cruz, it’s called 99 Bottles and you get your little card and you have to get through all these beers or whatever. And and I have a I have a friend who's from Britain and he said that that that particular beer is on the list and that he demands that have been the last one that he's forced to drink so.

Charlie B: I think we got the same one. I mean, I was down in, what is the capital next to Santa Cruz?

Ryan: Yes, sir.

Patrick: Yeah.

Charlie B: Yeah, I actually did a book signing there's a bookstore, a bookshop there with a cinema next door.

Ryan: Mmmhhhmmm. I was at that book signing.

Charlie B: Yeah, and I was at this book signing and they put my name on, you know, like a cinema thing at the top. And that was quite a cheer for this and this book signing, went really quite nicely. As I was leaving the shop, this guy came up to me little, little old guy with a beard and he came up to me said, “Are you famous?” And I said, well, I don’t, you better ask these people. He said, Well, it doesn't matter because Jesus loves you. And he walked away into the dark.

15:03

Ryan: I was I was at that book signing but I did not remember seeing that happen. I wish I had.

Charlie B: Yeah, yeah, I was on my way out at night afterwards when I finished he came up to me so I brought my ego down into proper perspective. Well that was, that was my, that was Grape versus Grain Book yeah.

Ryan: Well I'd love to hear a little more about this research into the the silicon and bone health. So what exactly did you do in this study?

Charlie B: Well what we did, all we did, was take a whole bunch of different beers and, and measure how much silicon there was in them. And then we did some pilot brews and we made various changes to see how it influences level of silicon in the beer. And, and we looked at a whole bunch of different raw material, different types of malt and hops and so on. When we looked at the beers I say, you know, the ones that are made out of the highest levels of pale malt, you know, the sort you would use, at high levels to make, like an IPA. You know, and also, fairly high hopping rates. We were very surprised to see there's so much silicon in hops, you know. But the silicon is in the outer layer of the of the grain husk. So, you know, if you got to be a beer made out of wheat, for example, it tends not to have such a high silicon level because, you know, you don't have that same husk there. And in the lab, in the brewery, the pilot brewery, we found that, we were more aggressive in our extraction processes, and we really whipped the stuff around and really aggressively loud it then we got very high levels of silicon. So, so really the silicon level beers, is, is can be really very, very high. Um, you know, 60 or more, around 60 milligrams per liter and, and it's probably the richest source of silicon in the diet. Now, of course, they did a big press release on this and everybody is asking me all these medical questions. You know, I’ve had people sending me their medical history you know and telling me that they’ve got this insurance or that insurance...

Laughter

Charlie B: ... and what do I recommend and have to say, I just, I just studied some beers, you know, please talk to a doctor, you know.

Patrick: You are a doctor.

Charlie B: Yeah, I am. Well, twice actually, doctor, doctor. But I mean, not that type, you know, and, and so it's been, I’m very sad, you know, and I feel really sorry for these people, you know. But, but the really got the wrong end of the stick and what we did was look at the beers. And people say, well, what do you recommend and how much beer should they drink and, and you know, one has to be very, very careful. And I say, look, enjoy your beer. You know, if you like beer, you know, just drink the beer you enjoy and just rejoice in the fact that it's actually maybe doing us some good as well. But we, we, you know, I'm not a medic, all we've done is to confirm absolutely, that there is a significant source of silicon. And, and it's not empty calories. You know there's people going around saying will beer is just empty calories, that's simply not true. We’ve done work before on folic acid and so on, and there's folic acid in beer, you know, with, antioxidants in beer, just same way there is in wine. And as you said in the introduction, we know, we've we've looked at materials like from the complex polysaccharides, the soluble fiber and possibly prebiotics, the degradation products and so on. So, actually, you know, there's a lot of evidence to say that beer, in moderation, can do you some good. But the key ingredient is actually alcohol. You know, the, those, there was a program years ago, on TV, called 60 Minutes and that's where the red wine people really launched in and because somebody said that, you know, drinking a glass of red wine every day is, is good for you. It cuts down your risk of your blood vessels from blocking, it cuts down the risk of atherosclerosis. And they say it's because of this resveratrol in the grapes. What they don't say is you’ve got to drink about 160 bottles of red wine every day to get enough resveratrol you know. The active ingredient is actually alcohol. And it's just as effective from beer. So there's been a lot of studies showing that the moderate consumption of beer as well as, instead of wine, will cut down your risk of atherosclerosis. So, you know, a glass or two of beer every day, that makes perfect sense.

Ryan: Right. Because alcohol is a vassal dilutant, right. So, actually causes the veins to expand, which is why you get pink in the face because you've actually got these blood vessels expanding.

Patrick: And also why they give it to you when they dig you out of the snow I guess?

Ryan: Well, actually, that's the, that's the thing. People talk about drinking liquor to keep warm, and it's, it makes you feel warmer because it's bringing blood to the surface of the skin, but it's actually causing you to cool down more quickly because the blood is losing the heat being close to the surface.

20:02

Patrick: Sure.

Ryan: And that whole thing about the St. Bernard bringing you beer or bourbon or anything like that is complete myth. It's all based on this one painting and this guy just thought it looked cool and...

Charlie B: Yeah, no St. Bernard has ever brought me a beer that my entire life.

Ryan: Yeah, you need to go get more avalanches.

Patrick: Yeah you're in the wrong part of the state.

Charlie B: Yeah, there’s not a lot of snow in Davis, California.

Ryan: You're pretty close to Sierra though you can you can hop up there for a...

Patrick: Yeah.

Charlie B: Yeah, I don't do snow. I'm of English extraction. I just don't do snow. You know, it's kind of dangerous stuff and wet and cold. You know. If it’s wet and cold I want it in a glass.

Ryan: Yeah, some people would say dangerous, wet and cold describes beer pretty well. One thing one thing I was kind of curious to ask you about since we were talking about beer and health is I've often heard talk of the cholera outbreaks in London not affecting the brewers because they never drank water.And the alcohol in the beer killed cholera.

Charlie B: Yeah.

Ryan: Is that true?

Charlie B: Yeah, absolutely. And of course, along the same lines, you know, people, the early settlers in this country, you know, while they were on board the ships they were fine because they were drinking beer. But, you know, soon as they arrived here, and they're drinking the water, you know, they have no idea why they're getting sick. Of course, you know, in the brewing process, you got a boiling state. So you killing off a load of bugs. And of course, hops are anti-microbial, you know. Okay, they're not going to kill off the pathogens. Pathogens will not grow in beer. But the hops do cut down the growth of some types of organisms, some of the lactic acid bacteria, for instance. So, yeah, you know, beer is a is a wholesome beverage. I say, you know, it's not like spinach and lettuce, where you get salmonella and E. coli scares. You never got an E. coli scare with beer. You notice that?

Laughter

Charlie: Right.

Charlie B: You never have these panics going on.

Patrick: Fair enough. Yeah.

Charlie B: Yeah.

Ryan: Oh, one other question I wanted to ask you about the silicone in the beer. So, you said the silicon is mostly coming from the hops. In your experiment, did you test any of the fresh hop beers like I know, Sierra Nevada brewing does one and Deschutes does one, where they try and...

Charlie B: No we didn't we didn't test fresh hops.

Charlie B: What I said was actually hops have got a very, very high level higher than any grain, but of course you use a lot more grain than you do hops. Even in the phenomenally hoppy beers that you can get in the United States. You know the, proportionately, you're going to get less that come from the hops that you are from the grains, from amount that you use. But we didn't test the the fresh hop, no. You know, I, you know that's a wonderful brewery. It's just a fabulous brewery, Ken Grossman’s brewery at CRW. It’s just fantastic. Have you been there?

Ryan: I've not been to the brewery but I certainly...

Charlie B: It’s the most beautiful brewery in the world.

Ryan: I frequent their bottles quite a bit.

Charlie B: It's an astonishing brewery, it, it’s, it's just beautiful and so efficiently run and so environmentally done, done right, you know, it's just a wonderful location. Excellent. And we were very blessed actually to have, he’s, Ken Grossman is very generous to us at UC Davis. We're very blessed to have a lot of good people around here. Fritz Maytag comes up and talks to my classroom anchor and Dan Gordon is always great value, you know, from Gordon beer.

Patrick: Right.

Charlie B: The guy who coined “Never trust a skinny brewery”. He's the guy who invented the garlic fry. You know, you go the sports, that, he literally he was the guy who invented it when he was a student, in in Munich, he, he invented the garlic fry. He's a great guy full of great stories. So we're very, we're very blessed to have some wonderful people here in, in California who help the program. Don Barkley from Napa Smith, he is coming to talk to my class in a couple of weeks time. So we're very fortunate.

Patrick: Fantastic. And you are the the Anheuser Busch endowed.

Charlie B: I am.

Patrick: Yes. So, uh, and so I've heard actually that you know, American style Pilsners get a bad rap a lot of times but I've actually heard it's really, really difficult to make to make a light beer like that as consistent, taste as consistent as they managed to do.

Charlie B: It is. You know, people are very rude about it almost, which is fairly un-justified. Because, you know, they're they're very refreshing beers and very clean beers. And they are the hardest to make because you can't hide any, any mistake in a product of that nature. It's not like, some of the really dark products that you know, you can hide a few sins in there and things can go slightly wrong.

25:01

You can't do that with a North American style, light colored, light or light lager. So they're fairly unforgiving in that respect. And of course, if you've got aging taking place and both beers are never better than when they're first put into the bottle. You'll see that staling taking place in a, in a North American lager before you will in some of the more robustly flavored products. So they do get an unfair rap. And of course, the, I mean, they're very refreshing, is exactly the right time when they should be drunk and, you know, and, and consumed, you know, and I certainly enjoy them at the appropriate time. And, you know, as I will say, there's different beers for different occasions, different locations. You know, I mean, my birthplace in the north of England, you know, I really don't want a North American lager because it's pretty cold and wet and soggy outside and I want something that’s going to warm me up a bit, you know. But, ah, if I'm if I'm knocking back Mexican food and a lot of spicy, spicy food and so on I, I really don't want a Guinness. You know, I want something that's gonna take the edge off, you know and be refreshing.

Ryan: I think that's something a lot of, a lot of people who don't really know a whole lot about beer get mixed up on because, there's a lot of people out there who've only ever had these, these, you know, lighter Pilsner, macro brews in every context, you know, they've only ever they only know the difference between Coors or Miller or Bud. And it's like, well, there's a lot more beer out there than just that.

Charlie B: There's a huge, I mean, there's a huge range of products out there. And, you know, I get really frustrated when, I give a lot of talks out there and people, it is general audiences, you know, rotary clubs and so on. People come up to me and they say, I don't like beer and I say, that's nonsense. You know, you might as well say you don't like food. It’s just that you haven't found the right beer for you yet. And there's such a diversity of every conceivable type. Made of all sorts of materials and all sorts of flavorings. And so I mean, how do you, you know, you know, you got a range on the, I mean, Miller, few years ago brought out a clear beer, which nobody understood. I mean, they took all the color out of it. So you poured it out and it had a few bubbles on the top and otherwise just looked like water and clearly tasted beer like. But, but people just didn't understand it. But nonetheless, they did it and it could be done. You can go all the way to black beers, and you can go from zero percent alcohol, you can go to, because the record at the moment is 42%.

Charlie: Right.

Charlie B: Which is “Sink the Bismarck”, because, they called it that because it's got one better than the German beer. That's the same company that came out with “Tactical Nuclear Penguin”. You know, I don't recommend these. Either the names or the style but it can be done. You know, and you’ve got, plants and tomato juice, you got, you know, fruits of various types, you know. There was a huge diversity out there. Some of them are, you know, some of them make me appreciate the beers I like all the more but there's you know the there's a beer for you. There's a beer for everybody and there's a rich diversity and a beer version for every occasion. Including my favorite which is breakfast with hefeweizen in Germany. That is the ultimate breakfast. White sausage and hefeweizen.

Ryan: Can you get any of those hefeweizens in the states, or, are like a Blue Moon...

Charlie B: Yeah, you get some excellent and of course the authentic hefeweizen. There's two things you got to look for. One is the the flavor. It's got to be a lot of banana milk and a lot pink clove. Banana and clove. That's because the yeast, which should be used gives this what is called, phenolic guaiacol which is the clove like character and of course a lot of the ESCA that causes banana flavor. And Dan Gordon's got an excellent hefeweizen, the Gordon Biersch Hefeweizen and Sudwerk, which is our local brewery here in Davis, they have one and Kellerweis from Sierra Nevada is another excellent one. All very authentic. But of course, no lemon. Absolutely no lemon, you should not have a slice of lemon at all. In fact Prahl, who is a brewer down here in Davis, he talks about the NFL, which stands for no lemons.

Laughter

Patrick: Yeah.

Ryan: It's a podcast, you can say whatever you want. It's just on the internet.

Charlie B: Can I? Well I, well, I couldn't possibly, you know. But, ah, but you know, no lemon, you won’t get that in Bavaria.

Patrick: Well, I feel like we've only scratched the surface of beers here. But I know you've got a lot of books and other publications out that people could take a look at. So you want to reel off some of those.

Charlie B: Do you want me to plug a few?

Ryan: Oh, please do, yeah, absolutely. It’s only fair, we're going to have you on the show, you should use the opportunity to sell your...

Charlie B: You know, the easiest thing to do is to just put in my name Bamforth, Bamforth and beer and you'll come to my homepage.

30:05

And, and if you scroll on the left hand side there, you'll, you'll see something called read the book and there's a whole bunch of books there. Probably the biggest seller is something called Beer, Tap Into the Art and Science of Brewing which which is now in its third edition and that's quite popular. Then there's this book I published a year or two ago called Grape Versus Grain, which is of course...

Charlie: Yeah, that title...

Charlie B: ... completely unbiased... wine and beer.

Laughter

Ryan: Completely unbiased.

Patrick: Is that popular in your food science department?

Charlie B: Yes, actually, most of them get it, most of them, you know, they smile. Because, you know, the wine guys historically take themselves, you know, take themselves far too seriously and most of them want to loosen up a bit. Whereas the beer guys probably don't take themselves seriously enough. So you know, I hoping that book sort of helps bring the two together. And mostly some of those actually you can you can listen, I brought out a seven CD lecture series called The Brew Masters Art and...

Ryan: Ah, that's very cool.

Charlie B: Available at, yeah, so went into enter Marin County and recorded that. It’s very difficult, you know, different. I do a lot of speaking obviously and it's great when you got an audience you can you can bounce off them. But, behind the microphone is very different. But, you know, it seems to have gone down quite well and so the, you can buy it and again the link is shown on the webpage.

Ryan: And if, people are curious, we will have links up for the books and the lecture series and Charles’ website on Sciencesortof.com in the show notes for this episode, so people can find it very easily there too.

Charlie B: Thanks a lot.

Patrick: And, ah, anybody got last questions? There's one thing I wanna, I wanna...

Ryan: I do have, I have one more thing to say. I was, ah, I didn't think to do this earlier. But while we were recording just now I texted my father who we've had on the show before. And he's an orthopedic surgeon, so a lot, a lot of bone stuff. And I texted him just, is silicon good for your bones and his response and I'm not joking is, “only if it's fermented with malted barley.”

Laughter

So go check out Episode 17 if you want to hear about the drunken orthopedic surgeon who recommends... for silicon.

Patrick: Ah, I noticed that your two advanced degrees came from University of Hall. And, ah, I know that Hall City seems like they're gonna be enjoying a brief stint in the Premiership and like going to be dropping back to the Second Division.

Ryan: Is this a soccer question? Are you, football sorry.

Patrick: Yeah. I just wanted to see how you felt about that or if you cared at all.

Charlie B: Well, what you need to know is that Wolseley is not my team. My team is Wolverhampton Wanderers, which is just about three positions at the moment but when I was a boy, all I ever wanted to do was to be the goalkeeper of Wolverhampton Wanderers. It didn't happen, so I wrote a book about it. It's bad. I wrote a book about all sorts of things, but I still actually write about, so I used to write for several years, about, for 15 years in the UK. I wrote in several of the clubs, professional soccer teams, football teams programs. And I say a book but I am still contributing to a website and doing interviews with, particularly with players who used to play the English league. and now over in America. So soccer is my other, is my other passion. Wolverhampton, where I, I used to watch Hall City. And there, in fact, they used to, they used to train at the university and they used to watch me as well because I used to play in varsity in the, in the university. So, but so I'd like to see Hall City stay up and my hometown team is Wigan. Wigan Authentic. That's my hometown team.

Patrick: They're not faring well either.

Charlie B: No, they’re not...

Patrick: You’ve got...

Charlie B: ... they’re all in trouble. But it looks as though Wolves will be the one that will survive, you know.

Patrick: So naturally that's the one that really is your favorite.

Charlie B: Wolverhampton Wanderers is what, you know, I really don't care whether Wigan go down but what I would like to see them stay up in the Premiership and I'm sure you would agree that. Of course, Wolverhampton, you know the famous beer style there is mild ale, you know. Not, not especially alcoholic about three and a half percent alcohol and quite dark and fairly sweet and that was the beer in the local industry down there, they used to drink. But these days is considered an old man's drink. But by exporting mild ale from from Wolverhampton.

Patrick: Export it to Utah where you wouldn't have to change the alcohol content.

Ryan: Or Kansas.

Charlie B: Well, I'm talking, I'm talking alcohol by volume now, of course, you’re free to, in Utah, is by weight, so that’s 4%, so it's actually more alcoholic in Utah.

35:00

Ryan: Man. Patrick, he just schooled you. He knows his stuff.

Patrick: Yeah.

Charlie B: But we have some great beers in Utah. You know, my favorite being Polygamy...

Ryan: I love the...

Charlie: Yeah, I like that too.

Patrick: Don’t they also have a...

Charlie B: ...wives.

Laughter

Patrick: Do they also...

Charlie B: ... this job you know.

Patrick: Is Hebrew also from ah...

Ryan: I thought Hebrew was from California.

Patrick: Maybe it is, maybe it is.

Charlie B: You know, I was once talking to that celebrated bunch of people, the Tuolumne County Farm Bureau. And when I finished talking this guy put his hand up and he said that I got a question. I got two questions for you. He said, my first question is “Why did our sweet lord Jesus Christ turn water into wine and not into beer?” And I said, because making beer was far too technologically demanding And he said, you know, I don't think I bother asking you the second question and he just sat down.

Ryan: What a good...

Charlie B: And I’m a good Episcopalian, I go to church every Sunday, but you know, you've got to smile at these things, you know.

Charlie: Absolutely.

Ryan: Oh, alright. Well, Charlie, thank you so much for joining us.

Charlie B: Okay, my pleasure.

Ryan: This is an excellent conversation. I hope we can have you back on the future because as Patrick said, it seems like we barely scratched the surface of all there is to talk about regarding beer.

Charlie B: All right, let's talk some other time.

Ryan: Absolutely. And, the next time you figure out some great health benefit to beer, and you can you can tell us all about it.

Charlie B: All right. That'd be great.

Ryan: Thank you very much.

Charlie B: Thanks a lot.

Patrick: Thank you.

Charlie B: All right.

Ryan: Bye.

Charlie B: Bye.

Patrick: Bye.

Ryan: Well, speaking of things that you do when you're blacked out, this week's Trailer Trash Talk deals with sleepwalking.

Music

Announcer: Hey y'all. It's Trailer Trash Talk.

Patrick: Okay, so this week's railer Trash Talk we're going to take on In My Sleep, which is an indie film. It's directed and written by Alan Wolf. We were just talking about Wolverham Wolves, if that's even right.

Ryan: I don't think so. But...

Patrick: That's right. I mean...

Ryan: Wolverham Wolves?

Patrick: I'm not sure I've got the name of the town right. I think it is Wolverham. Wolves, Wolves is the name of the team.

Ryan: Okay.

Patrick: Or the mascot for the team. This has nobody I recognize in it. Yeah, people like Philip Winchester, Tim Draxl.

Ryan: Oh, Phil Winchester. Yeah. Oh man.

Patrick: Lacey Chabert, Abigail Spencer.

Ryan: Yeah, Abi Spencer, I remember her.

Patrick: Yeah I don't know any of these people but it's an independent film so I guess that's acceptable.

Ryan: Actually, you know who it does have? It as Michael Badalucco. No, it has Tony Hale, Tony Hale I know.

Patrick: Who, who are these people?

Ryan: Buster Bluth.

Patrick: That, that is not, okay, Tony Hale is Buster Bluth.

Ryan: Tony Hale is Buster Bluth.

Patrick: Oh, okay. I'm like Buster Bluth is not an actor. So this guy. I don't even, I don't didn't has his name in the trailer. I don't know what the character's name is.

Charlie: His name is Marcus.

Patrick: Marcus, the main character Marcus has some kind of crazy form of sleepwalking. Was it para...

Charlie: Parasomnia.

Patrick: Parasomnia where he ah, he not, just he doesn't just walk around, he does all kinds of things in the sleep. Which of course, leads to, you know, the possibility of doing bad things in it. And at some point early in apparently early in the movie and early in the trailer, he apparently sleeps with his best friend's wife or girlfriend. Not sure which.

Ryan: It could happen to anybody.

Charlie: Yeah, still asleep.

Ryan: Yes, yes. That's what the, the idea is, I mean, it's a thriller. So it's kind of there's a lot of ambiguity in his actions, I think.

Charlie: Yeah, it's very much a thriller. And there's a lot of like, seems very mysterious the whole time, it kind of reminded me of Memento or something like that.

Patrick: I, exactly, I was going to draw that comparison later, but yes, Memento quite. So anyways, he sleeps with this woman. And when he's actually awake, awake, he regrets it and she regrets it too, because he didn't know what he was doing. And then she winds up dead. And he doesn't really have a good alibi because he has this condition.

40:01

Charlie: A common story.

Patrick: Yeah. So then this and then the plot thickens. Right? And of course the trailer doesn't resolve this. So that's about all we know.

Ryan: Well, they kind of, like, the trailer even, the trailer had a Total Recall kind of thing going on because at the end of the trailer, he wakes up in the same bed you see him go to sleep in in the beginning of the trailer. So there's this whole did dream all of this, you know.

Charlie: I don't, no, that’s not...

Ryan: No, but that's the thing. So like, he gets himself handcuffed to his bed at night so he won't get up and walk around. And then at the end of the trailer, he wakes up handcuffed to bed, and he throws the covers off and his feet are covered in mud like he's been outside walking around.

Patrick: Exactly.

Charlie: I get it, it's such a cop out though. I hate that whole, like, what, was he dreaming? I mean, it's cool in Alice and Wonderland 200 years ago, but that's...

Ryan: I don't know, I hope there's some level of ambiguity. Because I think without, without any kind of ambiguity, if it's all explained, then it's kind of boring. But if there's some level of ambiguity at the end of the film.

Charlie: Exactly.

Patrick: Why, why do...

Charlie: Ambiguity is good. Ambiguity is good, but it will maybe it was all just a dream is bad. That's like the recipe for a bad, like video game plot.

Ryan: Agreed. Like, Mario, Super Mario Brothers 2.

Charlie: Exactly.

Patrick: So I like, so the comparison you drew to Memento Charlie is quite, is exactly what I was thinking because this character has to basically go back and play detective about things he did. And in Memento the character can't remember them because he has this weird memory condition. And in this, he can't remember them because he was asleep. So it definitely had that, it was definitely...

Ryan: It had a lot of scenes of a sexy man running around in his underwear. No?No comment on that.

Patrick: So I suppose that it did, now that you, now that you mentioned it.

Ryan: I mean, you know, I'm straight but this guy was cut. I think...

Charlie: His best friend's wife was very attractive as well.

Ryan: She was, she was cute, very cute. Actually, one of the thoughts I had watching this trailer was this guy would make a good Flash

Patrick: In more ways than one.

Ryan: Oh, you went there. I wasn't going there. I was talking about the comic book character.

Patrick: Mm hmm.

Ryan: But yeah, I thought he looked like, you know, he had kind of a runner’s physique. I could see him as the Flash.

Patrick: He had the whole package so to speak.

Ryan: Whole boxer-briefed package.

Patrick: Yeah. All right. Well, remind me not to see this with you Ryan.

Ryan: Because I might get a little frisky?

Patrick: Yeah.

Ryan: Um, well, one of the things that reminded me of you know, we rarely, we rarely bring science into our Trash Talk. Trailer Trash Talk is kind of the realm of the show where we just riff and talk silly, but there's some cool science going on here. And there's a couple things I kind of like to talk about. There was a sleeping pill a while ago called Ambien.

Patrick: Yeah, it’s still around.

Ryan: Yeah, that's linked to some pretty bizarre behavior that seemed comparable to the kind of stuff that the Marcus character is going through. There was sleep binge eating with people who were taking this drug.

Patrick: Oh yeah, that's right.

Ryan: They would wake up covered in crumbs and their fridge door would be open and they would be, be binge eating in their sleep. And they would eat it in the weirdest way. Like they tear into, like a six, a six pack of like, hot dog buns, like a rat, like rip through the side of the plastic and then, eat, shred all the buns and eat it out of the side of the plastic.Crazy.

Patrick: Yeah.

Ryan: There was also a guy who got a DUI because he was driving. The case, as far as I know, the case kind of had to be dismissed because he was technically asleep. He wasn't drunk. He had no alcohol in him but the..

Charlie: No, it's a common politician excuse if you do something shady as a politician just blame Ambien.

Ryan: Yeah.

Patrick: But don’t they...

Charlie: If you're a listener and you're a politician, get a script for Ambien whether or not you take it just so if you do something wrong, you can you can use it as your excuse.

Patrick: Yeah, well, you probably have trouble sleeping at night anyway if you're a politician.

Ryan: Probably sleep like a baby.

Patrick: Don't the kids these days, I've heard they like to crush up Ambien and snort it for some other effect other than falling asleep.

Ryan: As the kid, the kid of the show, the kid Paleo Pal, I know nothing of that. I guess I'm not down, I’m not hip, I’m not down with the kids.

Charlie: You’re getting kind of, you’re getting kind of old man.

Ryan: A little long in the tooth, yeah.

Patrick: You're getting there. Yeah. You're no longer in undergraduate, you're starting to age...

Charlie: Yeah, you're gonna start grad school next year.

Ryan: Next year, I'm starting grad school this year.

Charlie: Well, that's what I meant next academic year. We think in terms of academic, I think in terms of academic years.

Ryan: We have a lot of Paleo Posse, who are not in the academic system. So we have to be you have to communicate well, Charlie. The whole point of this show is we communicate to not necessarily academics. Come on, man.

Charlie: Boring.

Patrick: Alright.

Ryan: So, the other thing I want to talk about with a sleep disorders is there's this really cool theory about parasomnia, basically being really tied into UFO abductions. Or, supposed UFO abductions...

45:02

Patrick: Whereby, what happened?

Ryan: So, one of the things your body does when you fall asleep is it paralyzes itself.

Patrick: To some degree I guess.

Ryan: To some degree. Basically, so you don't act out your dreams.

Patrick: Mm hmm.

Ryan: And that's important because you don't want to act out your dreams because when you do that you have things like parasomnia and somnambulism, that’s sleepwalking. So your body it paralyzes itself and sometimes, under certain conditions, you will regain consciousness before your body is unparalyzed.

Patrick: That's right. And sometimes it affects, like things like breathing...

Ryan: Yep, yep.

Patrick: ...and stuff. Yeah.

Ryan: It's called, the the folk name for it is old hag syndrome, which comes from the Norwegian myth, that a lot of times when you wake up in this state, there's a sense of overwhelming dread and terror and people say that they feel a presence in the room with them. Often the presence is centralized around their chest holding them down preventing them from moving.

Patrick: Right.

Ryan: And in the Norwegian culture, this was called the old hag, because they, they saw it, it was culturally identified as this witch that sat on your chest and held you down and prevented you from moving and breathing as you were waking up. But in the in the modern cultural mythology, it's kind of been co-opted by aliens, little, little green men, little gray men who who come, and, and most UFO abduction stories start with waking up in bed, seeing strange lights, hallucinations, feeling a presence in the room not being able to move. So the reports of the early stages of a UFO abduction are extremely consistent with this kind of waking paralysis. Which I thought was pretty, pretty interesting and worth mentioning on Science sort of.

Patrick: Yeah, I think that it's interesting that it happens in, like, the Norwegians have a term for this, which makes me think that like the weird sort of day cycles they have when you're at extreme latitudes might play a role in this.

Ryan: Mmhhhm. Mmhmm. Well, and the only the only people I know personally who have ever had this happen to them, it happened when they were extremely sleep deprived. And...

Charlie: Yeah, I've actually had this happen to me when I was really was really sleep deprived. But I was aware of all this because I saw some like Discovery Channel documentary about this phenomena like a decade ago. And so while I was experiencing it, I knew what was going on so I, it actually snapped me out of it. I was...

Patrick: Nice. So you used science to calm yourself in a time of terror and dread.

Ryan: Your Titanic brain, was mind over matter is what it was.

Charlie: It wasn't terrifying for me, it was more just curious. I was just like, okay, I can't move and like, I'm seeing things that are not actually in my room right now.

Ryan: That’s creepy, so creepy.

Patrick: Did you wake up later with your ass cheeks, a little sore?

Ryan: Aw, come on, Patrick. Don't go there. Don’t go there.

Patrick: Alien abduction, I just making sure, it wasn't actually an alien abduction in...

Charlie: I wasn't like, I wasn't creating any hallucination. There's just less information, like it was still my room. But it there wasn't enough detail. It was like a really poor computer rendering of my room or something. And then, so I knew, I knew that I wasn't altogether conscious.

Ryan: And I think, the other, one of the other symptoms is that it feels like it's happening for a lot longer than it actually is. Do you remember how long it felt like it was going on?

Charlie: Um, yeah, it felt like maybe 40 seconds or something. Oh, okay, so that's pretty short. It's not too bad.

Charlie: But I, like I said, I snapped out of it instantly. As soon as I realized what was happening. It clicked out.

Ryan: Cool.

Patrick: So you had been sleep deprived at this point, or...

Charlie: Yeah, extremely sleep deprived? I had been traveling I was jet lagged and just gotten home.

Ryan: It’s a good thing you have such a science brain.

Patrick: Yeah.

Charlie: Or what I would have just, well, I guess, I would have, had have a book deal now.

Ryan: I was gonna say yeah, you...

Patrick: You’d have movies made up.

Charlie: Yeah.

Ryan: You’d be touring as a abductee.

Patrick: You'd be giving interviews to local news and “man, I wake up and there’s lights flashing and then it’s shootin’ me with its mindpowers.”

Ryan: Send your hate mail to Patrick@sciencesortof.com.

Patrick: Fits right into Trailer Trash Talk.

Charlie: All right, we we were talking about a movie right? I feel like I helped to sidetrack this a little bit.

Patrick: Ah, we, yeah, it was movie science. That was Ryan's attempt to bring science to this.

Ryan: Which ended with Patrick imitating a hick getting abducted by a UFO.

Charlie: Well done, gentlemen, well done.

Ryan: Oh boy, here we are, okay.

Patrick: Oh, well, should we long or short this thing?

Ryan: I think it looks cool. I mean, I love momentum, ah, Memento. I didn't actually think of Memento when I watched this but as soon as you guys said it clicked and thought, I thought that was spot on. So I'm, I’m hopeful.

50:00

Patrick: I guess, I too am hopeful. I'm a little, I feel a little bit like this has mostly been done before. And so I'll, I'm, I'm weakly hopeful. Charles?

Charlie: I always get so confused with these, with this trailer thing because we're like, playing this stock market. I know this is going to do horribly at the theaters, but I want to see this.

Patrick: You don't, you don't know what the stock is priced at right now. So we we...

Charlie: Okay.

Patrick: I don't know, it might be really low. So it might, the bar might be set quite low for this. I have no idea.

Charlie: Well, I'm gonna long it then, because I like these types of movies. I like these cerebral thrillers.

Patrick: All right, Ryan, I sort of cut you off but I assume you were, you were long?

Ryan: I’m with you guys, I’m with you guys. So, I, I normally stand on principle with these movies. I noticed the other day that there's a new, there's a trailer out for the new Twilight movie and I'm already having like internal turmoil over our last stand on principle which ended very badly for us versus increasing our rank in the Science sort of league. So that’s something we're gonna have to think about.

Patrick: You have to think of our league, increasing numbers in the Science sort of league is sort of like increasing our rank.

Ryan: Okay, you're right, you're right, Patrick, you talk me off the ledge.

Patrick: All right. Uh, yeah, so I'm, I'm gonna, I'm going long but, maybe less money than usual on this one. And you guys are are full long or, or weak I'm fully long for this movie with a man running around.

Charlie: Yeah, I...

Ryan: You’re the one that brought up painful ass cheeks.

Ryan: You started the whole thing by talking...

Ryan: I started out by pointing out the aliens abductions are not...

Patrick: No, you, you, you, you way before that, you were talking about sexy men running around in boxer briefs.

Ryan: Yeah, that's because I like comic books and it's all about the idealized male form. So when I notice one I think, oh, you should cast them into movie.

Patrick: Or human form, you know, it doesn’t have to be male. But clearly...

Ryan: Super man heroes.

Charlie: Yeah, I think the deVinci and Michelangelo may have had comic books beat too.

Ryan: Well, they were, Da Vinci was probably gay.

Patrick: Just because he was well rounded.

Charlie: I'm just saying. I mean, comic, comic books have done remarkable things for the world. And they're, they're quite possibly responsible for the internet and modern medicine as we know it. But they may have not created the ideal human form.

Ryan: Okay, I see your point. Fair enough.

Patrick: Right. Oh, should we move on to the other sort of ancillary Trailer Trash Talk?

Ryan: Yeah. It's all you man. Take it away. I'm not taking responsibility for this.

Patrick: Well, no, I mean, I, none of us have to take responsibility for it. I think we all know who has to take responsibility for this.

Ryan: George Lucas?

Patrick: That's the guy So apparently there's going to be an animated sitcom version of Star Wars. And I had exactly the same reaction probably everyone is having.

Charlie: Oh, this is for real.

Patrick: This is for real.

Charlie: Is this posted April 1st? No, it's not it's April 6th.

Ryan: Good thought, Charlie, though. Way to think, man. Way to use that that giant cerebellum.

Patrick: So I guess the creators of Robot Chicken...

Ryan: Seth Green.

Patrick: Yeah, among others. And, and Robot Chicken and Family Guy have both had, sort of, Star Wars parodies that were that were approved by the Lucas Towers Inc. And so, I'm like, no. Todd McFarlane is not involved in this but Jennifer Hill was part of the Backyardigans. I’m not familiar with that. The Robot Chicken guys. And all these people are award winners in one way or another Emmys or, or other things. And went to Lucas and gave a Hollywood pitch for this animated Star Wars sitcom and apparently it's going to happen.

Ryan: Okay.

Patrick: And, I think, as long as you've got good riders and whatever, and George Lucas is really willing to be skating, in terms of the characters he's created, it might actually be funny. Because there's been enough, sort of, clever Star Wars, you know, things that sort of take the piss out of Star Wars. Like Ryan, I know you're always bringing up that uh, that Death Star was an inside job.

Patrick: It was a conspiracy theory.

Ryan: Yeah, that's hilarious.

Patrick: And, and you posted as the art on the show recently, that uh, that regrets poster.

Laughter

Ryan: Yeah. Those were the droids you were looking for Patrick.

54:57

Patrick: So there are funny things that involve Star Wars and they can kind of be inside jokes for fans. But my fear is that my fear is that George Lucas actually won't allow this to be, as, I guess, skating, for lack of better word right now. As it as it's going to have to be.

Ryan: I completely disagree.

Patrick: Oh really?

Ryan: I don’t think George Lucas gives a (censor beep). Right. I mean, honestly, I really think like, if the check is there, and I'm not saying George Lucas is a shill. I'm just saying, George Lucas does not care about the mythology of Star Wars, a fraction as much as most of his fans do.

Patrick: Alright, fair enough. Well, as long as the writers are willing to really, you know, be ruthless. It could be good. But otherwise, it's going to be horrible, right?

Ryan: I just, I don't, I don't quite understand the concept of a sitcom that's not, not based on... because I'm trying to think I'm racking my brain for a high concept sitcom that doesn't just take place in, you know, the typical three camera way, where you're not just at the cafe, the apartment and the job. Like, I'm trying to think of how that fits into the Star Wars universe. Like what's the point of having a sitcom in the Star Wars universe unless it’s, I mean, unless it's all just, it's either the situations have to be situations that are relatable enough that they'd be funny outside the context of Star Wars or it’s just all going to be Star Wars in-jokes.

Patrick: Right, I assume, it's like a Family Guy meets Futurama.

Ryan: Well, that doesn't really sound like something I'd be down to watch.

Patrick: Oh, but I bet you will.

Ryan: Ah, new, new Futurama comes out in June. I'm set. So I don't need anything that's like Futurama but more Family Guy because that just...

Patrick: I don't think it's gonna be like, I don't think it's gonna... I don't actually know what it's gonna be like.

Ryan: I'm not a big Family Guy fan. I'll just say that.

Patrick: Well, Family Guy, now, come on. Now, occasionally, it's totally hit or miss and what the thing with Family Guy is the jokes run for so long that, if it's funny, you get 30 seconds of funny. But if it's bad, you're watching the same gag run for, for 30 seconds or a minute and going why did they think this was a good idea.

Ryan: And that to me is the sign of weak writing that can barely fill 20 minutes, so I'm not that down with it. I have no problem with anybody who likes Family Guy if that's your cup of tea, that's great. There's enough TV shows out there that we all get what we want in this modern world, which is wonderful. I'll stick to Futurama and The Simpsons. The good Simpsons everybody.

Laughter

Patrick: Alright. Futurama, I don't think it's, I don't, Futurama is sort of making fun of it being in the future. I don't think the Star Wars is gonna go there.

Ryan: That’s because Star Wars doesn't happen in the future Patrick.

Patrick: It happens in the past, right.

Ryan: Gotcha.

Patrick: Yeah, Yeah, you did.

Ryan: So this, this is historical fiction...

Patrick: Yeah. Not exactly the kind you're used to.

Ryan: Well, speaking of speaking of things that come out of history, and are most likely fictitious...

Music

Ryan: ...talk about, talk about a former Paleo Pal member who was captured in China recently.

Patrick: I don't know, I don't know how fictional it is. I don't know. I don't know what to make of this story. I have to say. So, there’s this story that, and I didn't do a good job researching this on the web. So there could well be more articles about it than the Times Online. But the Times Online has a picture of this thing they report as the “oriental Yeti”.

Ryan: Aren’t all Yetis oriental? Isn't that one of their defining characteristics? I mean...

Patrick: Yeah, I forgot.

Ryan: ...because here we have, as we've discussed a lot, a seemingly odd amount in the past, you know, we've we've talked Sasquatch a good bit. And so, we've, you know, it seems to be very geographically delineated what animal’s what. So here in the Pacific Northwest area, we have the Sasquatch, but other parts of United States give different names for it. And, you know, if you're in the Himalayas, in the Orient, it's a Yeti. That's pretty basic. I guess this was captured in China so it could be in an Orang Pendek. Which, this is not gonna, this is not going to help my reputation as the guy who knows too much about...

Patrick: Exactly.

Ryan: I swear, Patrick, Patrick, sent this story to us I did not find this one.

1:00:02

Patrick: So, they claim that it looks a lot like, I mean even so, Ryan, you've already drawn parallels to this, this furless bear in Germany, ah...

Ryan: We’ve talked about...

Patrick: And, and, actually the headline says it looks like a bear without fur and it was shipped, or was it shipped for tests? I'm not sure why they shipped it to.

Charlie: Beijing for DNA test.

Patrick: But they mentioned that they think it, let’s see, I thought in the article, they mentioned that they thought it looked like a kangaroo.

Ryan: They said it had a tail of a kangaroo.

Charlie: It has a tail.

Ryan: Which, to me it...

Patrick: Which you can't see in the picture but it’s...

Ryan: That’s not suspect...

Patrick: If it really is a thick, you know, sort of long tail that kind of lets out most bears. All bears that I can think of.

Ryan: I mean, without a photo.

Patrick: There is a photo.

Ryan: But not of the tail.

Patrick: Okay.

Ryan: Sorry. You know, when when your headline is oriental Yeti, even if it's in quotations, you, you gotta have more than just what's written in the, in the blurb. I wouldn’t trust a photo, to be perfectly frank.

Patrick: It’s an exceedingly short article. It looks like a large naked mole rat. It's a it's a naked mole rat of unusual size.

Ryan: It's a bear without hair. It happens there's one in Germany in a zoo. They don't know why they lose their hair sometimes. But, like, if you look at these photos of this bear in Germany it's really similar.

Patrick: Hmm, well, we await the DNA test.

Ryan: I guess. The, you know, the DNA test is going to be inconclusive.

Patrick: Well, there's, there's not that many bears in, in China.

Ryan: Isn’t there the sun bear.

Patrick: I don't know what the sun bear is. I think you're thinking of a Care Bear.

Ryan: It's the same type of bear at the zoo in Germany. That has lost all of its hair.

Patrick: That's the sun bear?

Ryan: Huge coincidence, I'm sure. And, where's their range? Let's see, this, yeah. So it's like a four foot tall bear in Southeast Asia.

Patrick: Mmhmm. And does it cover Northwest China.

Ryan: Well, maybe it lost its hair because it's friggin not in its right habitat.

Patrick: Maybe.

Ryan: I don't know. The point is, we've got a sun bear in Germany that has no hair. It looks very similar to this Yeti monster captured in China that also has no hair and fits. And the other thing that pisses me off about this...

Patrick: The article said it used to be human.

Ryan: Oh, boy. Okay, so...

Patrick: It used to be human and it was turned into whatever this thing is.

Ryan: The other thing that really annoys me about the photo in this article is there is no sense of scale.

Charlie: Yeah.

Ryan: I'm a geologist, scale is important. Y'all stick a, stick a dime or a finger or a pen or something in that photograph, just so we know how big this thing is.

Charlie: But, what, there's a stick coming from the bottom left-hand corner.

Ryan: We don’t know big that stick is Charlie, it could be...

Charlie: Yeah, I do know how big it is because the bear thing is extremely pissed off, which means somebody is prodding it with a stick, which means that human’s holding that stick, so it's about a it's about you know...

Ryan: It's a tiny bear.

Patrick: It's about yay long. Yeah, it’s not a very big bear.

Charlie: And there's their drawers in the background too.

Ryan: Geez about maybe four feet long, the size of a sun bear.

Charlie: Yeah, exactly the size of a sun bear.

Patrick: I don’t even know if it's four feet long.

Charlie: I'll tell you one thing, this article is six sentences long. It's despicable. I think the most...

Patrick: ... quote article.

Charlie: ...the most insightful thing in this entire page is one of the most, one of the least educated comments below and somebody writes in “Just leave the poor thing alone. Do scientists have to always do some research and test animals to make sure they're not aliens? For god’s sakes. They've been here before humans came along. So let's give them the freaking freedom and right to live.”

Ryan: This isn’t the scientists’ fault. Somebody else captured this bear and are sending it to scientists.

Patrick: Yeah, we're just ah, yeah, we're just mediators.

Charlie: Well, it's the scientists at Beijing that need to, you know, I, I get, I get random emails about Mars every once in a while from wackos. And I don't, you know, follow up on every single, single random thing that comes into my inbox.

Ryan: So, alright we'll make a promise right now to the Paleo Posse community, that we will keep an eye on the story and try and follow it up. But I almost guarantee that this is the last we're going to hear about it. And if we do hear about it, it's going to say that results from the Beijing DNA tests were inconclusive, and everybody's going to use the argument from ignorance to assume this means it's an alien Sasquatch - Yeti - Chupacabra hybrid. I don't know.

Patrick: We'll probably never hear anything about it again. I do like, though, that I had to write more exhaustive things in sixth grade than this guy apparently gets paid to write. The Times Staff, there's an actual byline here. I’m surprised.

1:04:58

Ryan: I'm setting up a Google Alert right now. Because you guys make fun of me already for you know, doing my weekly Sasquatch, search. Which is not true, I don't do that. But I am going to I'm going to make a Google Alert for oriental Yeti comprehensive search once a day up to 20 results sent to my email. There you go. So we will follow this story to the bitter end.

Charlie: The byline is by somebody named the Times Staff.

Patrick: Exactly, like I said.

Charlie: Yeah, so it's the total dick working for the Times is who wrote it.

Patrick: Or their sixth grade daughter.

Ryan: We're going to, I'll post links to this story, the Oriental Yeti story, on the show notes but I will also post links to the German, German hairless bear. Okay, the one last thing that really annoys about the story, before we move on, because, I love the bit “a bizarre creature dubbed the oriental Yeti has baffled scientists”. Baffled scientists? Screw you.

Charlie: Yeah, that's...

Ryan: I looked at this thing for two seconds and I'm not even a bear scientist. You're, an ursaologist, I’m dubbing it, even though they don't exist, and I can tell this was a bear.

Charlie: No wonder print media is in trouble and show this newspaper article is awful.

Ryan: Yeah.

Patrick: I don't know this was this is the Times Online.

Charlie: Oh, I stand corrected, print media is great.

Ryan: Disagree, Charlie. I disagree with both statements.

Patrick: All right. Well...

Ryan: It's a bear maybe.

Patrick: Speaking of solid in this story to the bitter end or not.

Ryan: I don't, I honestly don't know what you're trying to transition to.

Charlie: What are we talking about?

Patrick: I think, aren't we done? What else we got?

Charlie: Oh. I thought we were talking about some like sugar substitute or something.

Ryan: Bear...

Patrick: Oh, really?

Charlie: ...bitter. No, no, not at all. I just didn't know what we're talking about. But I thought we were going to talk about bitter things.

Ryan: Speaking of talking about things that are also mostly hairless. We should do the Paleo POW.

Patrick: Oh, the Paleo POW.

Ryan: Isn’t that what's next. I mean...

Patrick: Yes it is.

Ryan: Paleo Posse are generally less hairless, less hairless, more hairless than most mammals, right?

Patrick: More...

Ryan: Think about, they’re, most of our listeners are human. We have some fish listeners in the UK thanks to Blackest Sheep...

Patrick: And her friends apparently.

Ryan: Well, yeah and her fish friends. And other than that, most of our, I assume most of our listeners are hominids. I know that the number of hominid species is growing rapidly. Lots of people asked me about it this weekend. But I'll man I got Google alerts already for Yeti. They just emailed me... see big cat with mange, oh, wow, this does have a long tail. That's crazy.

Patrick: Alright.

Ryan: I found a different photo. This is from a screengrab via YouTube. Patrick, there was YouTube videos and you didn't even.

Charlie: Oh, are you now? Are you now a baffled scientist?

Ryan: No, I'm not baffled. I think it's a cat instead of a bear. How's that baffling?

Patrick: It might be a red panda without any hair.

Ryan: Yeah, those aren’t cats. Those are bears.

Patrick: They're not really bears either.

Ryan: As I said I'm not an ursaologist. The fact that there's no sense of scale on that Bigfoot, it could just be a cat with mange.

Patrick: That's a weird looking cat head though.

Ryan: Well, I think you're right on the red panda.

Patrick: I think is hairless red panda.

Ryan: Yeah, red panda, mange.

Charlie: I agree.

Music

Patrick: Okay, who’s going first.

Ryan: Patrick, you are going first You are the one who's going first.

Patrick: Alright. So my Paleo POW for this week comes from Tamika and she writes “Hey guys, I consider myself to be a lover and discerning judge of good sci fi. That's science fiction for those of you who aren't in the know. Repo Man needs to crawl back into its unoriginal hole it crawled from. You want a good story about repossessing organs? I give you Repo, the Genetic Opera. Not only is it about an organ Repo Man, but it's a rock opera. Hugs and kisses Tamika. PS, Loving the show.”

That's, she's not the first person to write in about the fact that there is a rock opera out there about repossessing organs. So, I personally haven't seen it. Have either you to watched the rock opera repo?

Ryan: I have not.

Charlie: Unfortunately not.

Ryan: Why is that unfortunate?

Patrick: For reasons that our listeners are writing in and tell us telling us about it.

1:10:02

Charlie: Yeah did you not just listen to Patrick.

Ryan: I’m going to watch everything the Paleo Pals tells me to watch?

(Censor bleep)

Laughter

Charlie: We're just trying to be excited about what the listeners are saying.

Ryan: Sorry, sorry. I'll be good. Yes Repo Man.

Patrick: You expect them to listen to this garbage every week. Least you could do is watch something they tell you to watch every now and then.

Ryan: Alright. I will watch Repo Men. So the reason Tamika is writing in, is because in Episode 22, the episode “Robot, all too robot” our Trailer Trash Talk pic was the new movie Repo Man with Liev Schreiber. And all those guys.

Patrick: Jude Law, the beefy Jude Law. I'm surprised you left him out. Yeah, you need to stop drinking right now and maybe read your Paleo POW.

Ryan: Are we not gonna talk about Repo Man, Repo the genetic opera?

Patrick: I mean, what else is there to say? None of us have seen it. We're gonna need to watch it.

Ryan: Okay, I guess we're doing an odd man out on Repo Man, the genetic opera.

Patrick: That's a good idea. It's just Repo! The Genetic Opera.

Ryan: Repo! The Genetic Opera. She loves the show, though.

Patrick: That Yeah, it's always a plus that helps. It doesn't hurt when you, when you write in.

Ryan: It's true. I've said before we don't shy away from negative feedback, but it does hurt. Our feelings.

Patrick: Long term damage that is...

Ryan: That would be a good t-shirt, “scientists have feelings too”.

Patrick: I, that seems like that's probably been done, but okay.

Ryan: Has it been done with a brachiolope on it?

Charlie: I think it'd be a good t shirt.

Ryan: Thank you, Charlie.

Ryan: Okay, here's my Paleo POW. The Paleo POW starts with the word Ryan because it was an email written to me.

It says “I recently found Science sort of on iTunes and I'm really enjoying it. Y'all are pretty damn funny. Anyways, I'm currently teaching English in China. And in a recent episode, y'all were discussing Avatar and its release in China. And one of you asked if the Paleo Pals were available in China. Just wanted to let you know you guys are being listened to worldwide. One of the few things that is not blocked in China. Yet. Thanks for the laughs and the weird things I now know about sciencey things.” Megan.

Charlie: Cool.

Patrick: Awesome.

Ryan: So, we're not blocked in China yet. What do we got it what do we got to do China?

Patrick: Why, what, you're just, you're just, why would we want less listeners? I like that...

Ryan: I want to I want us to be dangerous in China.

Patrick: And we got, we need field reports about the Oriental Yeti.

Charlie: Yeah, we got a a very important...

Ryan: That’s true, Megan go find us an oriental Yeti. And teach it English.

Patrick: Ship it to Ryan Haupt at UC Santa Cruz...

Charlie: Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences.

Ryan: Send me a Yeti. I will train it. I will train it to be my friend.

Patrick: I expect it to come in a crate much like the Tasmanian devil in in Warner Brothers cartoon.

Ryan: Yeah. So I would name it Harry. Because two reasons, you got Harry and the Hendersons and that Bigfoot was named Harry. But also it's a hairless Yeti. So that's just hilarious. It’s ironic.

Charlie: Hairlarious. That’s nice. All right.

Ryan: You gotta, you gotta Paleo POW Chuck?

Charlie: I do. I'm gonna butcher the name. It's William. G. Wilhem. Wilhem. You guys help me out at all here.

Ryan: Nope. You're on your own.

Patrick: Gowelem.

Charlie: G y i l y m . Gwilym.

Patrick: Yeah.

Charlie: Cool, let’s do it.

Ryan: Gwilym DeFoe.

Patrick: Name people.

Charlie: So Gwilym posted a comment on episode 29, “Stranger in a Strange Land”. And this was actually on our website. So this is pretty cool. We don't, we haven't gotten too many comments on, on the web show notes themselves. So this is always great to get a few comments on this, this media as well. And Gwilym writes: “There's at least one snowy zombie movie. It's not very good though. I think the most interesting thing about the movie, that they gave away its best moment by putting it on the DVD cover and then forgot to actually include it in the film.” So he hyperlinked to at least one and I click that hyperlink and it tipped me to the Wikipedia page for a movie called Død snø. I’m fine die. And that translates into Dead Snow. And it's a Norwegian comedy horror film. And let's see here on the cover, I can’t... I can’t figure out what’s going on there, there’s people in, there’s somebody on a sled or snowmobile or snow machine, as Todd Palin calls it. There's a guy wielding an axe and a lot of like, Norwegian riding, maybe. Dammit. I screwed this up.

Patrick: No, I mean, that's, that's the description. That's what you see is what you get, man. I don't know.

1:15:00

Charlie: I mean maybe this is the VHS cover. We need to see the DVD.

Ryan: Ah, the DVD cover has, its, it looks like Hitler's decapitated head in the snow. So, apparently, there...

Charlie: Dude, really.

Ryan: Yeah.

Charlie: I've seen that...

Ryan: The link is right there, click the it's best moment link in the...

Charlie: No, I’m excited because this is on Netflix instant right now. I keep on seeing it pop-up in different little pictures. I remember seeing, like, Hitler's head like decapitated over a field of snow and I haven't clicked it yet because I'm like, what, what the hell is this? But maybe if I could live like another two hours at the very end of my life, I might watch it now. But I may, I may not get back to it.

Ryan: You’re crazy.

Patrick: So, so this was in response to our discussion about how zombies maintain their, their core temperature and we talked about how maybe they, they lived in packs and we also got klepto, kleptothermic heat by living in a herd. We also discuss the fact that typically you find them in temperate climates where it’s not too hot, not too cold. But this is a counterexample.

Ryan: You know what I did because I'm dedicated to the success of the show.

Patrick: I assumed you went out and bought us all new microphones and some fancy editing... equipment.

Ryan: False! I went I went to Ano Nuevo and fought elephant seals to test their kleptothermy. It was fun.

Patrick: And results.

Ryan: I did not get bitten by an elephant seal. Those were the results. But I did go out, I did go out with some biologists to help them capture elephant seals.

Patrick: Whiskers.

Ryan: No, not whiskers. The entire seal was put in a cage on a truck and driven to Monterey and dumped in the water and said get back Ano Nuevo now jerk. And then when it comes back Ano Nuevo again, it gets captured again. Science.

Patrick: Did they tag it or something?

Ryan: Yeah, it's a study involving we, should have, we should have the lead researcher on to talk about it, explain it better than I can. But it involves tracking and metabolic, metabolic rates in these elephant seals as they're traversing the bay. It's interesting stuff. But they needed, they needed you know, strong bodies out there to help move the seals around and you know, you do sedate them because otherwise they'll attack you. So...

Patrick: Yeah.

Ryan: But but they definitely you know, I was looking, I was up close, I was personal, I was looking at them, they were very kleptothermic. I could tell.

Charlie: Were they smelly?

Ryan: Oh, so smelly. Elephant seals are the worst. Well, there's all this rotting seaweed, right, on the beach. There's a ton of elephant seals which, you know they don't have the common decency to go in the water to do their business, they just do it right there on the beach. And then there's a ton of carcasses. Elephant seals’ survival rate not, not great.

Patrick: Especially not now Nino years.

Ryan: No, so there's like all these dead carcasses on the beach of baby seals and, and big seals and bite marks in them from the great whites in the water. It's it's a dog eat dog world out there.

Charlie: They're just like living in abject horror or something. In piss, shit and death. That's crazy.

Ryan: I know it's like it's not fun.

Patrick: Very zombie like.

Ryan: Very zombie like.

Patrick: All right.

Ryan: So go watch Død snø. It looks like, I mean that's a great name for a metal band, not just a movie.

Patrick: Yeah.

Ryan: It’s got the little lot, the o with the line through it. I don't know what that letter is but... Patrick: Not just a metal band. Also...

Ryan: The tagline for the movie is Ein! Zwei! Die! Which is, awesome. It's great. Big fan, big fan.

Patrick: But you haven't seen it right?

Ryan: Of course not.

Patrick: Okay.

Ryan: What am I? Norwegian?

Patrick: I don't know.

Ryan: I'm not.

Patrick: I can't see. I haven't seen you in several weeks. I don't know, you could be many things by now.

Ryan: Do you miss me?

Patrick: Not, not in a, not in a boxer shorts parasomnia kind of way, no.

Ryan: Fair enough. All right, well, did we, did we do an episode? Are we done Where am I?

Patrick: Yeah, let's sign, let's sign off or read out our media...

Ryan: Oh, right. Yeah, let's do that. Patricio, where can people go if they want to find out more about the show?

Patrick: Well, they can go to sciencesortof.com, and it's now enhanced.

Ryan: It is. Tell them.

Patrick: If you click on, well, we've often touted our phone number where you can get in touch with us and leave a rant or a voicemail to our question. Whatever, whatever you want to say to Science sort of. And now if you go to sciencesortof.com, click on the about page, towards the bottom of that, there is a Google Voice widget. And now you click on that widget, enter your phone number, and we call you and you can leave your voice mail.

Ryan: That's pretty sweet.

Patrick: It's pretty technologically amazing.

Ryan: Yeah, so if you're, if you're nervous about any costs associated with calling us since it's not like a one 800 number or anything like that, now you can use this widget.

1:20:00

Patrick: And what's even more amazing is I think what keeps people from calling is, is, I think, I don't know this, but I, guessing if you're listening to podcast, you're kind of tied to your computer a lot. You do lots of things on your computer until like, leave your computer and go to another medium is sort of odd. So now you just, you type in your number, and that's it. We take over from there. You don't ever have to leave your computer.

Charlie: Cool.

Ryan: We aim to please.

Patrick: That's right.

Ryan: All right.

Charlie: Yeah, so give that a shot.

Ryan: But if you're old fashioned, and want to call us with your, your phone, situation...

Patrick: With your fingers.

Ryan: With your fingers, and then use your power

Charlie: Or dialing want.

Ryan: And then you want to use your mouth to say things to us. You can do that by calling 312 Paleo Pals, which is 312-725-3672. But Charlie, are there other ways that they can socially network with us?

Charlie: Yeah, if you're sitting around with your iPad, you can get ahold of us on Twitter at sciencesortof, all one word. Or on Facebook, science, ellipses, space sort space of.

Ryan: Even I'm confused. Perfect. Um, I think...

Charlie: Well, I just think our Facebook is kind of hard to search for.

Ryan: It is.

Charlie: Because you have to put, it, it's not just one word science sort of, you have to type science period period period space sort space of, if you're searching for it.

Ryan: You’re right.

Patrick: I think also just the words, three words science sort of will let you find it.

Ryan: It should work.

Patrick: Without the punctuation.

Ryan: Yep. Yep. But if you're having trouble with any of these other things, you can, you can email us. Tell us about your problems, tell us about your day. How's things going? How are you? How are you?

Patrick: We care.

Ryan: You can do that. That's true. We are the science podcast that cares. The others the other science podcasts are too busy being skeptical of everything, but we care. Because scientists have feelings too. So you can email us at paleopals@sciencesortof.com or individually at Ryan, Charlie or Patrick @sciencesortof.com if you don't want the rest of the Paleo Pals to see what you have to say. You know, you can send your love sonnets to Patrick and your dirty lyrics to Charlie and your ramblings to me, I guess.

Patrick: And also, we're trying to put together a show whereby the Paleo Pals get quizzed. And so if you have a question you'd like to be read to the Paleo Pals without them having prior knowledge of that question and see how they react on the air. You can email that question to quizmaster@sciencesortof.com. All one word.

Ryan: Yep. And even though, I think that's about all the extra information about the show you need or can handle there's one other thing I would like to plug in. It's very personal, but I was just hired by iFanboy, which is one of the, the web's premier comic culture websites, to write about the science of comics. So if you've never been to their site before, it's ifanboy.com and they have an excellent podcasts that they also put out every week. But I will be writing an article every other week to start, about the science of comics. The first article is going to come out on Thursday, April 15, the Ides of April. So I will make sure to post links to that all over the web presence, places that Science sort of is likely to be Twitter, Facebook, and our website. But hopefully you go check that out and leave some feedback and leave comments on their site and frequent them, get my page views up and enjoy what I have to write. I'm really excited about it. I think it's gonna be a great opportunity for me to kind of spread, spread my comic knowledge around and get some people interested in science in comics. So hopefully, you'll come along for the ride and support that, and I would really appreciate it.

Charlie: Very cool. I can't think of a better man for the job.

Ryan: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. And I think that's all we got for this week. This was Episode 31. I was your host Ryan, my my fellow Paleo Pals are and will continue to be...

Patrick: Patrick.

Charlie: ...and Charlie. I feel like I keep on, like somebody keeps on taking roll or something.

Patrick: I am still here. Yeah.

Ryan: I just it's important to end the...

Patrick: Still listening.

Ryan: I just want to know who we are at the end of the show. I don't know.

Charlie: What are we listening to though Ryan?

Ryan: Well, we're listening. We're, what, wait what? I don’t understand that question at all.

Patrick: The usual sign off.

Ryan: The usual, you mean the usual awesome sign off is that we'll see you next week for more science...

Charlie and Patrick: So of.

Ryan: You guys have got to get more energetic about that.

Patrick: I think that's part of the joke.

Ryan: Well, okay, well, it's awesome.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to Science sort of our show notes are available at sciencesortof.com, which will have links to all the stories we talked about today. You can follow us on twitter@twitter.com/science sort of. You can get in touch with us at paleopals@sciencesortof.com or on our Facebook fan page. A Great way you can support the show is by subscribing to our feed on iTunes and writing a review so other people have a better chance of finding the show. And if you have a friend you think might be interested, tell them to give us a try. That's all for this week. Thanks for listening and see you next time on Science sort of!

Music

1:25:22

Ryan: What do you gotta say Charlie?

Charlie: Oh, I just want to record some for the listeners.

Ryan: Say it.

Charlie: To all you listeners out there, next time you're lifting that glass of sepia toned bubbles, drink to your health, the human condition and science.

Patrick: Cheers.

Ryan: I really wish I had a belch ready for that. That would be the perfect note to end that quote on. Oooh, note quote, rhyming.

(Belch)

Ryan: There we go.

Transcriptions provided by Denny Henke of Beardyguycreative.com